Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: All right, welcome back to the one percent man podcast. Got my good friend here. Renew with me. How you doing today, brother?
[00:00:08] Speaker B: I'm doing good.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: All right. All right. Now renew. Before we get started, I like, I always like to ask my guests three questions so I get to know them better and the listeners as well. Is that cool?
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:00:20] Speaker A: All right, Perfect. Question number one. If you could speak to your 18 year old self, what advice would you give him and why?
[00:00:27] Speaker B: I think be bolder, take more chances, don't worry about what other people think. One thing as you get older is you really don't care what other people think. You just do it.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: Okay? Okay.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: I was very self conscious when I was younger. When I first started playing guitar and doing lectures and stuff. I was always worried about making a mistake and stuff and finally got over that, just realized what happens. Just tell people. Actually I had a jazz guitar player teacher once and he said when you make a mistake, you want to do it twice. So they think you mean it.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I totally agree with that. I this, I think as I'm getting older now, I'm learning not to take myself so seriously and it also just understand that everyone's going to have an opinion about whatever you do. No matter what you do, whether you do something good or bad, everyone has their own opinion about it and just keep, just live your life, your life.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Little phrase I heard a long time ago was the people that matter, they don't mind and the people that mind, they usually don't matter.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Ah, yeah, agreed, 100%. Yeah, I agree with that, a hundred percent. Question number two, if you could be an expert in another field besides emotions, anger, stress, anxiety, what would it be and why?
[00:01:39] Speaker B: Oh, it might be preacher.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Preacher?
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Yeah, the spiritual. I've, I've always had a very active spiritual side and experimented with a lot of different things. I'm a Christian now. But when it gets comes to what, what makes people happy, Relationships are number one and number two is purpose and then meaning, which gets into that whole spiritual existential stuff. And people nowadays, we live in a very mechanistic world in that when I die, I'm gone. I'm just a little animal, I'm just a little machine. And so my goal, my purpose is to get as much pleasure and excitement and experiences as possible before I die. That's the way a lot of people are living their lives right now.
And that works fine until bad things happen. And then when your life gets turned upside down, you lose your job, your relationship, parts of your body are missing or going Bad or whatever. That's when that. That existential side, the meaning part is what carries you through and makes you able to go come out the other side intact. In fact, when you look at people who've gone through really difficult things, the ones that come through best are the ones that have that existential solid. In fact, Viktor Frankelback, who went through the Nazi concentration camps, his quest was the name of it, meaning he found that was what helped people survive the best.
Yeah, and we're weak in that nowadays, which is part of why we got so much anxiety, anger and other stuff going on.
We also have relationship that also is part of the purpose or what's going on. So people with very superficial lives.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: I was gonna say you said something very interesting. You said something that, like, you're a Christian now. Were you not always a Christian?
[00:03:21] Speaker B: When I was a kid, I was brought up in church. Then I got this illusion in high school and so went off and did my own thing.
Got involved with Buddhism, was with Buddhists for a long time, about five years. And I got very involved with that. Got dissolution of that. So then I decided New Age stuff was what I wanted to get into. So I was into all the New Age stuff and can tell you all that. In fact, the whole thing about New Age stuff, it's about having control over the universe. Right. Bottom line, that's what people are looking for. And then I realized that's not where it's at. So then I got into psychology. And my whole big thing was Scrooge, that movie and that whole story about Ebenezer Scrooge. And he came up with a new purpose in life because he changed his belief system. And so psychology, though, became my whole thing is change your belief systems, change the way you think, and that changes your life. So that was my next big quest for a while. And then in my first book, I had a lady who was doing my graphics for me. And so she was going to this church I had. My son was about. Let's see, he must have about been about 4 then. And my parents dropped me at church to get moral training. And so I figured, I'll do that. I'll just drop him and he'll get some moral training. I'll sit in the back. I won't be like my parents. At least I'll go. And the Christian message is an adult had grabbed me. And so that's.
Or it's been over 20 years now. 30 years.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I actually. I was gonna say that the New Age message of having control of the universe. I think the manifestation part of it always at first I was kind of like, oh, okay, I can believe that. But then I said, I was like, you know what? Real work, if you don't take any action, you can't just sit here and manifest anything. I think that's what really turned me away from that.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: And things will at some point not work out. And then what do you do? I, I've known a lot of people that were really deep into that and then they got a disease or something happened, accident, work or whatever. And then of course it shatters the whole belief system.
[00:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that, that, that's definitely true now also too, I think for myself, I left it. It's funny, I didn't leave. I always tell you, I don't leave. I didn't leave God. I left the Christian church and community. I think it's a very, I think the community of Christianity, of how people believe it and they want you to believe what they believe.
I left that alone and I started reading the Bible for myself more instead of looking for some preacher or someone else to have to, to give me the idea of, or to give me meaning to whatever was read. So I'll look at the scripture, I'll look at old. The actual text, the actual little. I'll pull it up. I think my biggest thing was the fear of God and people. You have the fear of God and it's. No, actually fear actually translates into respect.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: And almost like having a respect for your parent. Like I respect someone that's. I don't fear my superiors. I have respect for them because they're over me. But I, there's no, there's never. I'm smaller or I'm little and in this big thing. No, we're actually so disrespect level.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: So I actually took some seminary classes and learned biblical Greek. So.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: I've got a little reading group. These ladies, we've, we've been reading now for over 20 years, just going through the New Testament and Greek. So it's been a lot of fun.
[00:06:27] Speaker A: Yeah, so I totally understand that. All right, moving on. Last question. What is one value you believe all men should learn? To make it a better place for everyone.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: I think respect. And this comes out of the idea of the image of God, that other people are created in the image of God and if you do that, you're going to treat them accordingly. It's so easy to look at people as non human. That's the whole crux of a lot of warfare and a Lot of strife that we see in the world is we don't see other people as holding that image. That whole idea that everybody has equal right to respect, dignity and respect and treating them accordingly. That's so lacking now. Yeah, always has been to some degree throughout history, but we really see that today.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: No, I definitely can agree with that. I think having a respect for other people in terms of, hey, this is, this person is made in the image of God and understanding that his. We are like the most highest creation and the most loved creation. Yeah. Having that and holding that and then also seeing that in somebody else and holding them to that level.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah. He said in marital relationships. Right. How do I treat my wife with that? Borrow a Christian term, the agape. Love the idea that I always want what's best for her. Even she irritates the heck outta me sometimes.
Can I still want that and strive for that and work with that?
[00:07:56] Speaker A: I. No, I definitely do that.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: And I should mention we just celebrated our 49th year wedding anniversary. So congratulations. My big joke when I'm in a line and somebody's apologizing for making my weight. I always said, I've been married 49 years. I'm a patient man.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I can, I can definitely see that.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: I appreciate you answering those questions. Now let's dive into. You have a book out why you feel the way you do. Could you give us a quick rundown about the book and.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: Sure. Then quick, quick run through what it's about. It starts off talking about the seven basic emotions that we share with animals or the circuits deep in our brain. And then I go from that into triggers, things that, from our past that cause us. Cause an emotional trigger on us, often at a very unconscious level. And then I move into core response patterns, both positive and negative. As you grow up, you develop these response patterns and it's very Pavlovian. Again, it could be positive stuff. I can succeed, I have ability. Or it can be negative. Conflict is dangerous. I'm not as I don't measure up to others. And it's. We don't think those things. But again it's. If you look, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Right. So if you're looking like something's running your life and acting like it and thinking like it, then that. That's how you're wired inside. That's your condition response pattern. So I think the conflict is dangerous is the easiest one to understand. A kid grows up in an environment where Lots of violent. And they learn that if I keep my mouth shut and my head down, I get. Less stuff happens to me. And so that becomes an automatic pattern that they carry into adult life. And then they're coming into therapy and they're saying, I don't understand why I don't speak up on people in situations. My friend, I wanted this. My friend said I shouldn't have it, so I didn't do it. Why am I so passive like that? And it becomes just an automatic response pattern that oftentimes people themselves don't understand why they're doing it. So I go through some of those. And how do you resolve. How do you change it? Because one of the things I'm very big on this is my teaching background, is how do you apply these concepts? So end of each chapter has recommended activities, things that you can do to apply the ideas. Then I wrap up with the three things that make people happy, which we've already mentioned, and talk about those. And that's pretty much the bird's eye view of the book.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: No, I appreciate that breakdown. And actually, the example that you gave about not speaking up for yourself is something that I struggle with, and I still struggle with, because growing up, I didn't speak up for myself. I had an older brother, Serge, and he always spoke up for me, and he was always like my. I'd say my bodyguard, in a sense. I remember when we lived in Africa, he. I was getting whooped for something I did in class, and he came and he pushed both the boys off of me and even pushed the teacher and protected me. And I always replay that. That memory in my head very distinctly. But always having someone. And then now when I do speak up for myself, I have this feeling of like, I'm. Like, I'm wrong for speaking up for myself.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: I should.
[00:11:03] Speaker A: And I think it's something that a lot of people do struggle with, especially men, they struggle with because they feel almost this negative emotion of, oh, I'm speaking up for myself, even though I may be in the right. But deep down, I'm like, I feel bad, I feel nasty, I feel icky about it. Could you talk us through about that and maybe some.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah, we're talking about assertiveness. And let me mention before I go into that, one of the things I. I cover a little bit in the book is personalities. There was a study in New Zealand, the New Zealand study, and it started back in the 70s, it's still going on. And they took every baby that was born over the course of the year. And they just started studying them, doing all kinds of physical, sociological, psychological stuff. And each year they would do a battery of tests. And as new things came out, genetic things or whatever, they would add those into the test.
And they have over 90% compliance of all these people that they've been studying for all these years. It's the best longitudinal study like that's ever been done. All kinds of controversial stuff came out of it. But anyway, we don't need to go into that. But one of the things that they identified by age 3 is all of the kids fell into one of five different groups. And this is a continuum. So you had your well adjusted group, which was the biggest group, about 40%, and they had appropriate risk taking, appropriate connecting with people and that type of stuff. Then you had your courageous group, the Evil Knievel kids that grew up to be hang gliders and doing all the high risk, the adrenaline junkies, right? Yeah. And then at the other end you had the reserved kids. And if they had a good background, positive family background, they did okay. But they tend just to be more reserved in life. And those three groups did fine unless they had a really negative background. Right. Again, there was this interplay between genetics and the environment because it's always both a combination of those. And then you had the two groups that had the most problem, where you were extremely shy kids.
And again, even they could do okay if they had a nurturing background. They were the most vulnerable if they had any negativity in their background. And the group that had the most problems were the under control kids, the kids that had a hard time controlling themselves. And they're the ones that were most tendency to grow up into crime and drugs and all that type of stuff. And even they, if they had a good background and learned some self control, did okay. In fact, they found that self control was one of the most important things that you can teach kids.
That's what would launch them into adulthood and being able to deal with stuff best.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: When you say self control, could you break that down? What like what that means and what.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: That looks like for, for a five year old, it would be the marshmallow test. Okay, here's a marshmallow. If you wait five minutes, I will give you a second one. And so the kids that are wait, they'll distract themselves, they'll look away and Stephanie will get that other marshmallows. Then the control groups, they grab that marshmallow, they eat it. Right now it's delayed gratification. Am I able to put off now for Something down the road. Am I able to control my emotions if I'm upset, can I manage them? Emotions are something to be acted upon, not acted out. And by acting out, we're talking about a two year old. He throws a tantrum and he cries, he whines, he does that type of stuff. As opposed to knowing I'm angry but and acting upon it, taking some action that will resolve whatever it is without acting it out on the person. And again, you see a lot nowadays, people acting out their emotions. That's why we say adults are acting like a two year old. Right? Because that's what a two year old does, they act out their emotions. I'm watching my great granddaughter, she's just ready to turn four, but yeah, she gets unhappy and sometimes she has a hard time controlling her, especially when she's sick, hungry, tired. Right? Yeah. And that's true for adults too. Sick, hungry, tired or stressed. We call those the great evils for kids. It's the great evils for adults too. Right? Because that's when your brain's not thinking as well. And so your emotions will tend to get more out of control. In fact, that's one of the stress management things, is when you're sick, hungry, tired, under stressed, deal with the important stuff, let the little stuff slide. But unfortunately that's when the little stuff seems so important. Right?
You're all stressed out and tired. That thing that your wife that irritates you has to be dealt with or your kids, whether you're feeling okay, it's no big deal, right? Learning that, that's part of just how the body works and how the brain works. And so when you're in those vulnerable times, take care of what needs to be taken care of. Just let everything else slide until you're feeling better.
Anyway, we got off track there, so.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: No, we're still on track.
I think so. So yeah, at the end of day, it's something that you said, I think that is really important is to don't act out your emotions. I think that's huge because I think a lot of times, like you said, we've seen adults act out on their.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: Emotions and you see it in movies, you see it in music, it's part of our culture now. It's this idea of being outrageous and acting out and all that type of stuff. It's in fact people that do that, they get rewarded.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: The whole show is about that.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: But it's not what makes for happiness in the long term in relationships.
[00:16:23] Speaker A: Then talk to us. What, what does make especially for men, what does long term happiness look like? Because. And I want to set the stage. Cause I think a lot of times, even for myself too, I thought getting a six figure job was going to make me happier. Having more money, having more women, having more sex. But what, what is the thing that would make us the most happiest long term?
[00:16:47] Speaker B: Just as a side comment, a study that was done. Shoot. About four years ago now found that $75,000 was the cutoff. After $75,000, people weren't any happier than anybody else. Right below. That money helped because it took care of basic needs. Right. But that, that at that point in time, probably more now, but that's where you're real comfortable. And so now the other things become important.
Happiness, there's thrills, there's experiences. And those things give you momentary lift, a momentary high. And when you start talking about that deep sense of just satisfaction, that deep sense of peace that you see some people have, having somebody in your life that you're comfortable with, that you can share your hurts, your successes, your thoughts with, they're not going to criticize you, they're not going to judge you, they're going to accept you, who you are.
That is the type of relationship that really gives you satisfaction. When you get older especially, and you look back and you have that you can. Experiences are nice. I like to go travel and do stuff. It's a momentary thing, right. And then, okay, what's the next thing? And so many people in our culture are chasing experiences. They're going for one thing, they want that high. And it's like an addict, right. You never get that initial high. Right. You keep chasing it, but it never comes. And what really satisfies the soul is again, that deep sense of peace about who I am and having people in my life again that I can connect with. And again, that's something that is so absent in modern culture. People used to have their village group of people. Then you had your block that you lived on, you had your community, you had your church or whatever, and you had a group of people around you that you could talk to that knew you, related to you. People can go through their entire day today and not have a meaningful interaction with another person, even though they got 500 Facebook friends, right?
[00:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:48] Speaker B: So when I talk about happiness, I'm talking about that deep sense of peace and just satisfaction with where you're at.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I finally found a relationship. I ended the relationship, got into another relationship that from the start, it was just pure honesty. Right. Pure honesty. In terms of relationship, in terms of sex, in terms of what we want out of life. I'm a very. I'm a driven man. Very driven. I have a podcast, businesses and all that. But I wanted to be with somebody, that I could always share how I felt about everything. And no matter. No, no matter how crazy it was or how small it was, but I wanted to be able to communicate that with my partner. And having somebody now that I'm able to do that to, because we ha. We actually had a conversation that sometimes you get into relationships with people and you feel as if you have to have a representative or you have to lie or sugarcoat things and not say things how you normally would say initially. And then after that, as time goes along, you almost change or morph or start being more truthful and you're like, no, I was always this person. What's the reasoning behind that? Why would some people. We hide ourselves where other people.
[00:19:55] Speaker B: Everybody does that relation. Relationships go through this kind of cycle. You have that initial honeymoon cycle when this perfect. This person is wonderful. They're going to make me happy. And in fact, when you do MRI scans, you find that the frontal lobes shut down a little bit more so in women, interestingly enough, than. Than men. And then six months later, you look at this person, you say, who are you? I didn't notice that you do this or that. And so you call that the disillusion stage. Right? And. And you go through what we call the. The rulemaking stage. And okay, who turns, who puts the cat out, who feeds the dog, who turns on the gene? Where do you put the forks? Where do you put all that stuff? And if you get through that, then you can settle down and get some real intimacy going on. And it gets to be good. And then something comes in your life. You have a kid or something, you got to go through that whole negotiation stage again. And then it settles back down. And then, okay, you lose your job. Okay, you gotta go with that whole sex thing again. Who's going to do what and stuff. And then it settles back down. And so it's that cycle you go through. Part of what keeps you. Helps you make it through those difficult times and get back to those good times is commitment. That's another thing that's not, that's not in a lot of people's vocabulary. I'm going to go into relationship as long as it feels good. And when it doesn't feel good, I'm out of here.
And so they don't get a chance to Work things through to get back to that deeper level of intimacy that's different from infatuation. Again, infatuation is just hormones. It's the old lust circuit of the brain on fire. And that's different from again the intimacy where you are really connected with that person at a deep level.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow. So there's two things going on here. One, we need more commitment nowadays, right?
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I just read an article about modern quote relationships and how yeah. People are throwing out the old models. It's. They're no good. Again, I'm with you as long as it feels right.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: So funny enough, myself, my partner were in a very non traditional relationship, right?
Oh I guess you could say open in a sense. But yeah, I guess that's. I guess that's what it. Not non monogamous. I guess we don't really know the right term for it.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: In that sense is that with your research and your background is monogamous for men? Because that's a hot topic nowadays. Is that something that, that emotionally for men, is that something that really helps us long term to be in a monogamous relationship with one woman or, or is it. Was it more that we have to have 1, 2 or. I think, I believe when I was in Djibouti they allowed men to have up to four wives.
But your take on that, what's your opinion or even your professional opinion, I.
[00:22:39] Speaker B: Should say on that first of all that that's not my main area of dealing with. I mostly dealt with one on one, anxiety, anger, that type of stuff. But just from what I've read through the years and stuff, I'm, I'm still proponent of it.
I find that if you can find somebody and develop that type of relationship, some of the happiest people in terms of that peacefulness and that sense of connection. And again you can get, you can be a kind of king of the.
As a rooster, whatever and make that your whole thing. And it gets to then. Then we can debate back and forth whether that is the type of happiness that you want or not. Like a person who's a corporate head, got a lot of money, right. And I've substituted love, power and control and money for the. For that need. And that's an awful thing. But you still got a hold on your life, right. And so you always need more. We have out of those circuits we have a caring circuit. We have another circuit that makes us miss people when they're gone. We have the play circuit where we like to get together and we substitute again, success. We Substitute money, we substitute fame, those things for that connection that at a deep level as a social animal that we want.
And you just gotta look at the newspaper and people that do that kind of see the result of that long term. It's not always a pretty sight.
Okay. So. Yeah, so I think there, there's value in having a one on one relationship where you actually committed to understanding each other and developing that closeness.
If you got a lot of stuff going on, it's easy to. When somebody takes you off to move on over here.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's. I think that's the narrative that that's been going on nowadays as well as the. Like you said earlier, it's easy to just hop on a dating app or on, on social media, find somebody new, than to stick with the person that you currently have.
[00:24:39] Speaker B: So you're looking for that infatuation, that rush of, of the new relationship. And it always fades. Yeah, it can come back once you get through that, all that negotiation and other stuff. But yeah, it will fade at some point because the reality of who this person is comes into view.
That's when your frontal lobes start firing again.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: As men, we're supposed to be providers, protectors and leaders and such. How do we keep ourselves, how do we keep our emotions in check when we're, when we have to have these multiple hats that we have to wear. Right.
And also be stoic in a sense too. Right. If. Cause I believe when a situation is going down or something is going down, it's very hard to be emotional at that situation. So you need that logical brain to be like, hey, yeah.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: And that's a pro. If I'm in the operating room, I don't want to be thinking about all my needs. I need to be operating. Right.
[00:25:36] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Or if I'm in some other. If I'm up on a high rise and I'm doing some riveting or something, I got to be focused there.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: So that's, that's an important skill that we have. It's just that you need to have time to go back and process the other stuff in your life too. This whole idea of having to be the provider and all that stuff. Again, I'm a child of the 60s. It was a big revolution. A lot of the stuff that we're still trying to work out now started back then. All the roles of sexes, all that stuff changed. My wife's Asian. It's all very different, but we share a lot of stuff and that's okay. In fact, there's a lot of Cultures where women actually take the role in a lot of this stuff. It's interesting. Japanese culture, the man comes home and gives his money to the wife, and she manages all that stuff. He does work. He takes care of world affairs and stuff. She tells him where he's going to go, how he's going to dress and all that. All the minor stuff. That's a very interesting division of labor over there. My wife comes from the US but we lived over there for two years. So it was interesting just watching how they do stuff. Very different from Western culture, but it works for them. Again, there's more than one way to do stuff, but a lot faster than your belief systems about do I have to always be in control? Do I always have to be the upper hand? Or do I have a partner that I can share that with? My wife worked. We shared a lot of stuff. We came up with our. Decided who does what best, and then that person takes care of that.
She managed finances early on.
Then I realized I was really impulsive, and by letting her manage the money, I could pretend like it was better than it was and spend what I wanted. So I decided, okay, I needed. I need to get some responsibility here. So I took over managing, keeping the budget and that type of stuff. And once I saw where the money was going, then that forced me to start being more responsible. So I just made a rule for myself that I wait before I buy. More expensive the longer I wait. And once I started practicing that, then I started getting some discipline for myself.
But this idea again of I have to be the head household means I. I'm the moneymaker. I do this and that. It doesn't have to be that way. Right. I think it's maybe looking at what are your strengths within the relationship and capitalizing on those. What are. If you have a partner, what is your. What are your partner's strengths? And letting him or her capitalize on those.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Yeah. So working off each other, that's part.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: Of that negotiation thing I mentioned. Right.
That should go through.
[00:28:14] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely part of that negotiation phase.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: We do get a lot of messages about what man is supposed to be. And again, different cultures have different messages that they give men. But the whole idea of.
And again, the John Wayne model that gets put out as the Western model is not the way it always was. And you look at the writings of Washington or some of the people that found it in the US they're very passionate and they're very open about stuff. Very different from the John Wayne model that gets presented as the Western Model.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: Break that what the John Wayne model is.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: And it's just I don't show feelings. I'm always tough enough. I can you see this like the, the Die Hard type movies, right? The guy is getting stabbed, he's been thrown out of the airplane, he's been run over by a truck, he's been beat up, but he's still just trogging along. He's doing good. That's not reality.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: No, not at all.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: There's times when I'm hurting and it's okay to say I'm hurting and it's okay to say you're stepping on my toes and I don't like that. And I can set limits, but I can do it in a kind way. I don't have to be nasty about it.
[00:29:17] Speaker A: What's the first step for men to start as feeling their emotions.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: About doing what?
[00:29:24] Speaker A: About feeling the emotions. Right.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: It's not a big mystery. If you want to break it down, the three negative ones are I'm angry, I'm frightened, or I'm sad because of loss, because we're dealing with threat or loss. On the negative side, threat, you either get angry or you become frightened. And anger is a broad range of things from irritation to rage. Fear can range from just apprehension to panic. Right. And a lot of times those get mixed up because if the threat is manageable, I'm going to get irritated or angry. I'm going to work to get rid of it. Right. If the threat is unmanageable, then I'm going to become frightened and want to get away from it. If it's a little dog barking at me, you know, I'm going get away from it. Right. That's a manageable threat. Right. If it's a grizzly bear, I'm going to head the other way because that's unmanageable. And to take it into more daily things like a job interview. Right. For some people, that's a very threatening thing for them. And so they're going to have a lot of fear. For other people, people, it's not a big threat. They're going to plan for it, they're going to prepare themselves. And for a lot of people it's something in between those two things. Right. So anger, so anger and fear always relate to threat. And like when you're dealing with somebody in therapy and they got anxiety or anger problems, part of it's identifying what's the threat. How do you manage that in a reasonable way? Right. Loss has to do is sadness, consolation from just disappointed. All the way to depression for major loss. And so those are the ones that. The negative emotions that you need to manage. And getting in touch with your emotions is pretty easy because, for example, you'll have somebody in the office and you'll say, you seem like you're angry about that, and they're ripping the arms off the chair and they're saying, no, I'm fine. Right?
[00:31:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:11] Speaker B: So it's a matter of what are my angry or my frightened behaviors or my sad behaviors. Everybody has things they do when those emotions come up, whether you're consciously aware of it or not. So you go back to a time in your life where, okay, when was the time of my life that I was really angry about stuff or something, and what was I thinking? What was I doing? How was I behaving? Okay, those are my behavior patterns. You'll probably see yourself doing those first minor threats, too. And so when you see yourself doing that, then, oh, that's. That's my angry behavior. There's something really bugging me. Or. Same thing with fearful behaviors. You've got something you do during those times. For me, one of the things that was not okay was weak feelings, which is very common for men, right. I go down to my brother's house. Sensitive scene comes on a movie, we start talking politics. We gotta go clean those gutters, Right?
Yeah.
Because that can't deal with that, those feelings, that type of feeling. Right. And so I was that way when I was in Japan. One of the stories I tell in the book is embarrassment was not okay for me. Right? And so we'd go into the stores over there, and because my Japanese was very minimal and a lot of cultural stuff I didn't understand, I'd start crabbing at my wife, right? And after a few visits, she pointed that out to me, which is something that your mate will do. They'll point out these things, right? So I got thinking about it. So what's going on? Okay, what's going on is I'm embarrassed. And so that's why I converted to anger, which is very common. Men will convert weak feelings to anger. Because now I have that adrenaline going through my body. Physically, I feel strong. And that's better than perceiving myself as being weak or helpless or having some kind of a soft feeling going on. So I realized, okay, so when I got to the store and I started feeling like I wanted to crab it, I'd say, what's going on is I'm embarrassed because I don't know how to behave properly.
And as soon As I would just think that thought I'd get in touch with the fact that, yeah, I'm embarrassed and then it's going to flow through me. Now it's okay to get right.
You get comfortable with feeling embarrassed. And it's just like making mistakes or other stuff. You just learn that's something that it's not going to kill. You don't like it. But hey, because when you're covering an emotion like that, you go into this robot behavior and it's like you do that same robot behavior, say the same things every time that situation comes up. And that's an indication that there's something that you're stuffing and you're putting all your mental energy into stuffing that thing that whatever it happens to be that you're doing this robot behavior because you can't have your whole brain thinking at that time.
With me. Some of my things I do when I've got something bothering me is I'll spend time just playing some stupid game on the computer, things of that nature.
And when I do that, for example, I had a really good friend that died, one of my closest friends. And so for a long time I was just moping around on the computer and stuff and realized that, okay, yeah, what's going on here is I'm lonely and so what's the cure for loneliness? Relationship. Okay, I need to either start spending some time with some of the other people and other guys I know, or. Or I need to go find somebody I can spend time with. Right? Because that's a need that's not being taken care of. And bottom line, that's all emotions are, is. They're messages about needs, needs and wants that are either being met or not met. On the negative side, there are things that are not being taken care of. Whether it's a threat, a loss of some type, the loss might be relationship, it might be status, it might be purpose or meaning. There's a lot of forms of loss that can cause a person to get into that. Sadness, depression, stuff. Identifying what is it? Okay, and then how do I come up with an. A plan for meeting that need that's going to be reasonable and not cause unnecessary harm in people? Same thing with threats. How do I meet that threat? How do I minimize it? Again, with the least amount of harm to myself and others? That's a lot of what you do in therapy with people, quite frankly. I used to tell people I'm just a positive realist. Sometimes life sucks, but you got to deal with it. So let's come up with a plan, as opposed to staying stuck in this circular thinking that people get locked into.
And that's something that you'll find people. I don't understand why. How could that person do that? Why did that happen? I don't understand why. And so you ask them, so why do you think that happened? They'll give you a perfectly good explanation. Then they'll go right back, but I don't understand why. And what's going on is the world is not matching their belief system about how the world should be. And so you go on tilt. And so that's something to look for. When you start doing that, you're illuminating over and over. How could that happen? Why does it happen? Why did I do that? Okay, I've got a belief system, something that. That's not matching reality. And so I need to accept that reality is different from the way I would want it to be. And so how do I again meet that need in a way that's reasonable?
It gets into something we call should must thinking.
People have beliefs about the way things should be. And so people should be fair.
My friend wasn't fair. I don't understand it. People should be fair. My friend definitely was not fair. How could he do that? I don't know. Why would he act like that? And so you ask him, and they'll give you a good explanation. He might have been just, you know, tired that day. May have been some unusual circumstance. Maybe I misunderstood it. Maybe he's just a jerk that treats everybody that way. And I never realized it before. Right.
But the thing is, he was unfair. What am I going to do about it? Am I going to talk to him? Am I going to cross him off as a friend? Am I going to get revenge? What's my response to that as opposed to sitting here? I don't understand it. Why do you act that way? And that's about. That's another thing that you do a lot in therapy is just identifying when people get stuck like that. What is the belief system? Okay, what is reality? Okay, how do we accept it? In fact. In fact, let me back up again with Shouldma's thinking. If you have a belief system like people should be fair, change it to I would like people to be fair or I want people to be fair. It's not that I have to be on time. I want to be on time. I like to be on time. Whatever your should must rule is. And these rules come from childhood. Right?
And when you carry them into adulthood as they should must rule, I have to or I must or I should. Then it's like this invisible parent is following you around, telling you to do things you don't want to do. Right? Yeah. When I was. When I. When I was at school, I would tell the students, do you have to come to school? Yeah, you have to come to school. No, you don't have to stay home, enjoy yourself. But if I don't go to school, then all these things. Okay, then it's. You're choosing to go to school. Right. Because you're getting some benefits. And that's the bottom line is life is a series of choices. That I'm either getting some good stuff or avoiding some bad stuff. And that if I start thinking in those terms, that I choose to be on time or I like to be on time, I want to be on time as opposed to I have to. Then. Now there are times when I can be late. It's okay because it's not that big a deal. Certainly that rule again. Military parents. Right. Being on time was really big for us. Right. And that was something that used to drive me nuts about my wife when we first got married. Because my family. You plan things out, you know, where you're going to go and what you're going to do and all that type of stuff. Her family, people slowly gather together, the plan slowly begins to form, and then we go do it. Right. And that was just really hard for me at first, but eventually I got to where it was okay. Those are the types of things that. That drive people nuts.
The way. The way the world should be. And the world is not that way.
[00:39:10] Speaker A: No, that's. That's. That's the truth. Yeah. I think a lot of times I used to struggle with that, but now I'm a lot more open to that. I don't know how the world should truly be. Almost that I know nothing.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: But you have things that you would like.
[00:39:22] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: And you have values. I would like to do this or I'd like to be this way. And I wish things were this way. And sometimes they are, and sometimes they're not. And if they're not, what am I going to do about it? Right. Yeah. I'm not saying you don't have values. You don't have rules. Rules are good. They're useful. They help you navigate life successfully. But understand that they're just simply things that you've chosen. And there's times when other people are going to choose other stuff. Wow.
[00:39:52] Speaker A: Agreed. No, I agree so much.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Oh, excuse me.
[00:39:55] Speaker A: Before we go, I want to ask you about why Should. What do you. What is the biggest thing that you want men to get out of your book? What's the number one thing that you hope that every man that reads your book gets for.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: For. For. For the new one? I, I think it's an appreciation that emotions are just messages. I have a chapter on becoming friends with your emotions. Understanding that, that when they come up that you need to listen to them and listen to the message that they're bringing to you because they're bringing. The negative ones are telling you about holes in your life or needs or wants that are not being met. And if you ignore those, they're going to keep pounding at you stronger and stronger until you're either going to have anxiety or you're going to start doing angry things or whatever. You're going to act them out at some point. If you don't listen to the need and figure out how am I going to meet that need?
Hmm. So that's all they are. They're just messages.
[00:40:56] Speaker A: Just emotions are messages.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: And be friends and just, and, and once, once you get that idea and you start listening to it and you find life becomes easier.
[00:41:06] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I, I totally agree. So last, this is the last question before we go is what is something that you want to tell us before we get off of here? So usually what I like to do is give the guest the last word. And the last word is something that it's like, could be a quote, it could be.
[00:41:23] Speaker B: I was going to say buy the.
[00:41:24] Speaker A: Book, but definitely, you could definitely say that and we'll definitely put that in the show notes.
What is something.
[00:41:31] Speaker B: I think books like mine can be very helpful for the average person to gain some insights and some tools to live more effectively. But if you're feeling overwhelmed or you've got so much stuff going on in your life that you just really feeling like you're sinking. Get help. There's so much help available nowadays, whether it's an in person help, whether it's over the Internet. If you're living in a place where you don't have resources, there's a lot of different types of groups that are out there for different things. If you're drowning, look for, look for that, that rope to pull you out. There's people out there. I'm in a celebrate recovery group right now that I play do music for and it helps people and lots of stuff like that out there.
[00:42:15] Speaker A: Yeah, no, agreed. And my brother and people listening. Your legacy starts today.
